Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 21:50:52 GMT -6
I'm not sure at all what you all are looking for now. Can I get some guidance?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 22:37:33 GMT -6
I'm not sure at all what you all are looking for now. Can I get some guidance? seeing as I'm not staff/voter, can't really help, just-- seconding this sentiment.
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Kevin
Rising Star
First EXODUS Pro Heavyweight Champion
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Posts: 128
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Post by Kevin on Feb 10, 2013 22:40:24 GMT -6
Well, I didn't grade your roleplay, but I can offer a few tips.
First off, I haven't seen you do a single piece of writing where Rizzo cuts an actual wrestling promo. Now, this isn't a fed where everything has to be 100% promoes all the time, in front of an EXODUS PRO banner and with a fern in the corner, but tossing one in here and there is nice.
The first roleplay was vaguely amusing, but it didn't really seem to go anywhere. The second RP bordered on the offensive, for how nasty and dicky you were being. As the babyface of the match, I shouldn't be wanting to see Rizzo get socked in the mouth. A roleplay should establish something, not just be space-fillers. If you really wanted to do the whole "Rizzo giving back to his fans" thing, then the piece should have focused on how Rizzo really enjoys wrestling and getting to do this sort of thing, more than just be witty banter with his wife(Who we have no reason to sympathize with yet, because...)
You haven't established who Rizzo is or why anyone should care. That's an important part of making a new character from someone who people ignore the promoes of, to someone that people cheer on. You can't have Rocky fighting the big match and the end of the movie with the whole crowd behind him if you don't spend the time to tell exactly who Rocky is, why we should sympathize, what he's capable of. So far, you've just kinda thrown a lot of characters at us who spend a lot of time talking about either how cool they are, making dick jokes, or referencing stuff you've done in the past. You don't explain these things enough for us to really enjoy the reference, so it ends up you just listing your accomplishments and cool stuff. I don't know who Rizzo is, who Heidi is, who Nick or Sam are.
Moreover, I have no idea what Rizzo's gimmick is supposed to be. I like him irrationally because of his picbase, but after reading four things with him in them, I can see that he's an annoying dick who I kinda want to see get beaten up. I don't know or care how his wrestling style developed, I don't see any significance to any of his wrestling, and I don't know how motivation to being in Exodus. Soooo...
Why's he a face? Why should the crowd get behind him, why should we, as fellow writers and readers, sympathize with him and like him, and what positives do we get out of reading your stuff?
This is a game where we all write fanfiction of our imaginary wrestlers. Everyone should be trying to write cool stuff other people like to read. If we don't have your particular sense of humor, why should someone want to read more of your stuff?
Now, feel free to take some or none of this as advice. I'm not trying to be mean here, but these are the things I'd focus on in your position.
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Daisuke Iwakuma
Main Eventer
Pete: Nick, I don't think you'll ever be truly happy unless there's a baby octopus involved.
Posts: 496
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Post by Daisuke Iwakuma on Feb 10, 2013 22:45:59 GMT -6
I'm someone who DID grade your roleplays, and I'm going to second some of the things Kevin said.
Your promos have little to no match focus, and when that's 15 points out of a possible 50, you lose a LOT right there.
Secondly, the crude humor turns me off personally. Considering Judge's Preference is another 10 points, you lose a lot of points there as well. That second RP was near offending to me, and I'm a guy. Honestly, the RP title itself almost made me want to give you a 0 in that category.
You're not a bad writer, you just need to fix a few things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 22:50:42 GMT -6
Or leave. It's been real. Will (Zortalk) good luck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 23:02:03 GMT -6
okay...
this is the second round of personal offensiveness being a demerit I've heard here.
which amuses/puzzles me considering about half of what the faces on WWE do is pretty offensive. if everybody's favorite go-to example is as full of "good guys" getting cheered for bullying, racism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia... I'm left wondering where one should look.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 23:04:09 GMT -6
okay... this is the second round of personal offensiveness being a demerit I've heard here. which amuses/puzzles me considering about half of what the faces on WWE do is pretty offensive. if everybody's favorite go-to example is as full of "good guys" getting cheered for bullying, racism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia... I'm left wondering where one should look. I can't truly speak for Kevin or Jon, but I can say that your example tends to not be my own. I find the way faces in the WWE are written to be terrible, because they're all written to be horrible people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 23:09:38 GMT -6
okay... this is the second round of personal offensiveness being a demerit I've heard here. which amuses/puzzles me considering about half of what the faces on WWE do is pretty offensive. if everybody's favorite go-to example is as full of "good guys" getting cheered for bullying, racism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia... I'm left wondering where one should look. I can't truly speak for Kevin or Jon, but I can say that your example tends to not be my own. I find the way faces in the WWE are written to be terrible, because they're all written to be horrible people. yes. yes yes. definitely agree. but basically, they're written to get the backing of the WWE crowd. who individually may be okay people, but in a group turn into assholes. which in the end, that IS what a "face" or "heel" truly is, more than any patterned formula. so I'm guessing I'm trying to gauge the e-crowd here. which in the end, is basically the readership. I'm pretty sure I'll get my face stomped in for a while, to be honest, because most of what I write is playing the long game, but hey. I can accept that if I know what I'm working with.
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Kevin
Rising Star
First EXODUS Pro Heavyweight Champion
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Posts: 128
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Post by Kevin on Feb 10, 2013 23:09:49 GMT -6
Or leave. It's been real. Will (Zortalk) good luck. I knew you were gonna do this. You can't take any criticism of your work, dude.
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Kevin
Rising Star
First EXODUS Pro Heavyweight Champion
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Posts: 128
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Post by Kevin on Feb 10, 2013 23:19:08 GMT -6
I can't truly speak for Kevin or Jon, but I can say that your example tends to not be my own. I find the way faces in the WWE are written to be terrible, because they're all written to be horrible people. yes. yes yes. definitely agree. but basically, they're written to get the backing of the WWE crowd. who individually may be okay people, but in a group turn into assholes. which in the end, that IS what a "face" or "heel" truly is, more than any patterned formula. so I'm guessing I'm trying to gauge the e-crowd here. which in the end, is basically the readership. I'm pretty sure I'll get my face stomped in for a while, to be honest, because most of what I write is playing the long game, but hey. I can accept that if I know what I'm working with. Being a face doesn't just mean you says the things that makes the people laugh. Being a heel doesn't just mean you scowl at babies and call the crowd jerks. In a game that is focused on the writing we do, I feel like the most important thing to do is to get the crowd, your fellow writers, interested in writing more. Face and heel is just an arbitrary thing to shape the characters we write, like alignment in a Dungeons and Dragons game. Just because someone is playing a Lawful Good Cleric doesn't mean the ONLY thing they can do is give free healing to orphans down at the docks, and just because someone is playing a Chaotic Evil Barbarian, it doesn't mean that the go-to pastime should always be eating babies. Our audience as far as the people who attend RIMAC shows and cheer or boo are literally up to you to decide the reception of. You could have someone come out to the ring and literally kick a five year old boy in the balls until he's bleeding and crying, and have the crowd cheer if you wanted. What's more important is internal consistency, writing a character we want to see more of, and making an exciting, enthralling, fun or character developing piece of writing with each thing you put out. Or maybe I'm high. Whatevs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 0:30:22 GMT -6
FYI: You are 100% correct. Rizzo's the absolutely wrong character for me here. If i'm going to play a face, which is what I want to do, I need to do it right for the place I'm in.
Kevin, sorry I wasn't clear on who was leaving. You're correct on what needs to change about the roleplays. 100%. I just rater not change that particular character. I have others I used that are much more in line with what's going on here. I like it here, alot. Now that I know what you're looking for, I'm ready to do much better and do it right. I need to tailor my stuff more to what the judges want rather than the audience in the crowd. Again, I apologize for looking like a petulant douche. I just don't want to post one character's roleplays under a different name.
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Kevin
Rising Star
First EXODUS Pro Heavyweight Champion
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Posts: 128
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Post by Kevin on Feb 11, 2013 0:34:12 GMT -6
Well, you've definitely surprised me with being willing to try again. That's awesome. I can never hate someone willing to try.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 0:37:47 GMT -6
It was absolutely the wrong style and character for this place. That's my fault entirely. I can't be mad at what you're looking for because that's what I've got to work towards achieving. I read what everyone said and figured out that I needed to change my character. Time to ditch all of the crazy ones and go with my more straight laced guy that I've used here and there. I haven't used him much, so this is going to be quite a developmental journey for me.
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Kevin
Rising Star
First EXODUS Pro Heavyweight Champion
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrragh
Posts: 128
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Post by Kevin on Feb 11, 2013 0:56:40 GMT -6
I love to see people try to do something different. Every time I join a new fed, I try to make a new character, or focus on a particular character in a tag team. I often shuffle old characters into supporting cast. Two of my old bigger characters are current supporting characters of mine, Boston for Omar and Sergei Bogorovich for Tom Sawyer in my other fed.
Srsly, to all those reading this, my biggest advice is to keep doing different things. Nothing else expands your library of writing tricks like change-ups.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 1:37:22 GMT -6
yes. yes yes. definitely agree. but basically, they're written to get the backing of the WWE crowd. who individually may be okay people, but in a group turn into assholes. which in the end, that IS what a "face" or "heel" truly is, more than any patterned formula. so I'm guessing I'm trying to gauge the e-crowd here. which in the end, is basically the readership. I'm pretty sure I'll get my face stomped in for a while, to be honest, because most of what I write is playing the long game, but hey. I can accept that if I know what I'm working with. Being a face doesn't just mean you says the things that makes the people laugh. Being a heel doesn't just mean you scowl at babies and call the crowd jerks. In a game that is focused on the writing we do, I feel like the most important thing to do is to get the crowd, your fellow writers, interested in writing more. Face and heel is just an arbitrary thing to shape the characters we write, like alignment in a Dungeons and Dragons game. Just because someone is playing a Lawful Good Cleric doesn't mean the ONLY thing they can do is give free healing to orphans down at the docks, and just because someone is playing a Chaotic Evil Barbarian, it doesn't mean that the go-to pastime should always be eating babies. Our audience as far as the people who attend RIMAC shows and cheer or boo are literally up to you to decide the reception of. You could have someone come out to the ring and literally kick a five year old boy in the balls until he's bleeding and crying, and have the crowd cheer if you wanted. What's more important is internal consistency, writing a character we want to see more of, and making an exciting, enthralling, fun or character developing piece of writing with each thing you put out. Or maybe I'm high. Whatevs. ... except D&D alignments do not evolve. you can play each alignment uniquely, but at the end of the day, something like Chaotic Evil isn't particularly different now than it was 30 years ago. step back and chart out what being "face" has been from the 1980s to here. do the same with heel. it fluctuates many times over. being a face right now has more in common with an 80s heel than an 80s babyface. being the classic "babyface" archetype right now means you have Cena Heat. wrestling is constantly evolving because it is low art and always at its best when it taps into the zeitgeist. every time there's been a boom, this is what has happened. wrestling alignments are ENTIRELY based on how the crowd receives the actions; the audience is a pivotal part of the show and one of current wrestling's biggest fuckups is trying to ignore that. in wrestling, the phrase "the opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy" is absolutely true. if you do something as a "face" and get the hell booed out of you, you're not a bad face-- you just turned into a good heel, if you have the ability to run with it. and vice versa. see: pretty much anybody who got over in the Attitude Era. if you want to try to turn "face" and "heel" into D&D-like alignments, well... good luck, I suppose? good guys and bad guys in popular media outside of wrestling are even more complicated right now. we are not roleplaying anything as unaffected by the outside world as high fantasy 'verse. hopefully I'm not babbling gibberish either, and not coming off as trying to pick arguments, because I genuinely just want a discussion and some perspective. I don't know how what I'm doing will be taken, I suppose we'll see. I will say this: I'm not writing a "good guy" or a "bad guy", nor am I writing a straight gimmick. in some ways he's a guy with a job that (like most everyone) measures his words and actions more carefully when there's a camera on him; sometimes elements get a bit more fantastical because this is fiction and not somebody's diary. the Alignment slot is probably the spot on the profile I cared the least about. if it needs to be changed to suit here, I've got no hesitance. but if "playing your alignment" comes into scoring here... yeah. I don't even have a real finish to that sentence.
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