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Post by EXODUS Office on Feb 24, 2013 20:49:51 GMT -6
A few of you aren't fans of the feedback form, so let's try this; give us feedback however you want! Let's hear it about E-Pro TV Episode #5!
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Post by #MrEXODUS on Feb 24, 2013 21:44:00 GMT -6
Good segments this week. Some major feuds are being set up and the EXODUS landscape is being set. I like where we're heading. Feel like a few guys are stepping up and are trying to be prominent on screen figures and that's great to see.
Flow of the show is getting a lot more crisper, but thats just in my eyes.
Looking forward to seeing what the new characters introduced bring to the table. Good show this week.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 22:41:50 GMT -6
I'm super happy with the fifth show. It flowed well, as mentioned before. And what we got out of everyone was absolutely stellar.
I'm left shaken by Maggie's writing of me and Johnny's match. It felt like an actual serious match between two known strike based wrestlers.
I'm impressed and happy with how everything went, even the Heavyweight Title match was good as sudden as it was for everyone.
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Post by Ryuji Kamigawa on Feb 25, 2013 20:29:26 GMT -6
Good show overall, if a bit disappointing due to lack of roleplaying from some segments, but that did at least allow LEGION places to come in and wreck shop. Some general thoughts:
- It likely creates a lot more work, but I'd like to see each segment and match get its own post. There are spots where you get a couple in a post, and those parts flow less well than the rest of the show. By contrast, the second half of the show is mainly matches which each get their own post, and it makes things easier to read.
- The company has a coherent, fed-wide direction going forward, which is more than I can say about a ton of e-feds I've been in. Things are more fun when there's a wider narrative to take part in, so props to that.
- Not a fan of one person holding two titles -- would have liked to see Rourke drop the International somehow (or be stripped of it by management in the Newswire, for example, with a tournament set up) if she was going to be moved up for the big prize. It's a fascinating IC development, though -- since it gives SO many people fuel for the fire going forward.
- I have to agree with a lot of the Twitter feedback -- either Rufus Frost IC is with LEGION or he's kind of an idiot. Riley's firing got me riled up for both the right and wrong reasons. The Twitterati handled the argument better than I can, I think.
- Ulysses/Cannon was my MOTN, for what that's worth.
Lot of people looking through the place lately. Curious and excited to see how this place grows.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 21:41:30 GMT -6
I'm going to absolutely disagree with the above sentiment that every segment / match should be a separate posting. That's just annoying and honestly truly breaks up the flow of the show as you read. Though this does lead into another minor preference gripe. The hype posting on Twitter is GREAT don't get me wrong but when you post the show is live? The whole show should be posted and ready to rock. The delay doesn't add to anticipation, guys. APW does the same thing and its like oh look show. Oh crap. Let me refresh its cut off. Oh here's another part. I do a lot and when I take breaks is when I get to actually read finished shows and its like... when I see something that says "show is up" I get excited and then there's the letdown as its being doled out. And while the board is pretty I have the same complaint here I've had virtually everywhere: white lettering on charcoal/black background is hard on my eyes so I have to copy and paste each section out so I can actually read it. Ulysses / Cannon was great, would definitely love to see a rematch.<3 There was like Kliff said a much better flow to this show than the last and that's nice. There's still very much a feel of "shakedown cruise" feeling however and it might be a good idea if you have a member of staff that is your "final set of eyes" that makes sure all the tenses and coding and so on is uniform. I mean maybe you do and that's why things are getting smoother but that's just the thought I'm really disappointed that there were no shows for this show, esp for my match. But this tbh was hardly the only fed that had a bad round of no shows this week maybe there is just a lot happening for some reason. Definitely more positives than negatives though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 21:52:12 GMT -6
I'm going to absolutely disagree with the above sentiment that every segment / match should be a separate posting. That's just annoying and honestly truly breaks up the flow of the show as you read. Though this does lead into another minor preference gripe. The hype posting on Twitter is GREAT don't get me wrong but when you post the show is live? The whole show should be posted and ready to rock. The delay doesn't add to anticipation, guys. APW does the same thing and its like oh look show. Oh crap. Let me refresh its cut off. Oh here's another part. I do a lot and when I take breaks is when I get to actually read finished shows and its like... when I see something that says "show is up" I get excited and then there's the letdown as its being doled out. And while the board is pretty I have the same complaint here I've had virtually everywhere: white lettering on charcoal/black background is hard on my eyes so I have to copy and paste each section out so I can actually read it. The combining of segments was actually based off of your suggestion after March of War. I think it read better that way, though my transitions could've used some work. I can see where you're coming from on the Twitter deal; it was made worse last night because I had to step away from the computer for a period of time. The board is...we're still working on a replacement, I'm not sure what the situation on that is; Mike and Jon had been working on it, I was rather hands off about the move.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 22:39:04 GMT -6
Also - I do think you guys are working hard on this - I hope that came across too
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Post by Andrew Ashton on Feb 26, 2013 1:48:08 GMT -6
I'm going to absolutely disagree with the above sentiment that every segment / match should be a separate posting. That's just annoying and honestly truly breaks up the flow of the show as you read. Though this does lead into another minor preference gripe. The hype posting on Twitter is GREAT don't get me wrong but when you post the show is live? The whole show should be posted and ready to rock. The delay doesn't add to anticipation, guys. APW does the same thing and its like oh look show. Oh crap. Let me refresh its cut off. Oh here's another part. I do a lot and when I take breaks is when I get to actually read finished shows and its like... when I see something that says "show is up" I get excited and then there's the letdown as its being doled out. And while the board is pretty I have the same complaint here I've had virtually everywhere: white lettering on charcoal/black background is hard on my eyes so I have to copy and paste each section out so I can actually read it. The combining of segments was actually based off of your suggestion after March of War. I think it read better that way, though my transitions could've used some work. I can see where you're coming from on the Twitter deal; it was made worse last night because I had to step away from the computer for a period of time. The board is...we're still working on a replacement, I'm not sure what the situation on that is; Mike and Jon had been working on it, I was rather hands off about the move. The boards will be back on the agenda now. With Andrew finally revealed I don't have to spend time making videos for every show to try and generate intrigue and interest.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 7:36:28 GMT -6
this is awful of me because it's not actual show feedback. I kinda try to be careful with my feedback these days because... well... you've seen how I am in discussions by now. I do not want anything like "get the waterhose out" to be needed in a thread reviewing somebody's work whose capabilities at the moment so far outstrip mine. running a fed is a far more difficult job than it seems already. but-- And while the board is pretty I have the same complaint here I've had virtually everywhere: white lettering on charcoal/black background is hard on my eyes so I have to copy and paste each section out so I can actually read it. if they switch to black-on-white layout, it'll just switch to me pasting entire sections into ZenWriter or somesuch. I'm not intending to say that my needs here are any more urgent than anyone else's, but... in building the new board... if it's skinnable, maybe a dark skin and a light skin? I've been places before where these topics bring on a ton of suggestions and requests for various skins, and that's definitely not what I want to start-- that turns into a delay because of the time-hog to the people who have to put things together. Just looking for compromise.
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Daisuke Iwakuma
Main Eventer
Pete: Nick, I don't think you'll ever be truly happy unless there's a baby octopus involved.
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Post by Daisuke Iwakuma on Feb 26, 2013 13:22:14 GMT -6
I wanted to give you guys a little insight from the staff point of view on things. I have a lot to deliver in terms of feedback and thoughts.
- First off, I was really disappointed in the turnout for the six-man tag. I was hoping we'd see the best from all involved, but that hopefully showed respect to those who showed up. Reynolds didn't have to be buried with her team, and Halliwell and Tyler looked good picking up the win.
- Mike has been on point delivering the Andrew Ashton videos, and with Jerry Matthews...I'm intrigued. I had worries at first, considering that LEGION is a cult, so there's two religious like heel things going on, but I think it can work. Plus Ryan from our new affiliate at THW speaks highly of him. So let's see how it rolls. This was the first time we condensed things for segments, and I didn't think it looked bad.
- The "trainwreck" segment was booked by me and written by myself, Clint, Torrie, Gunner, Ben (Harter) and Kyle. The group of us put out a strong segment that wasn't overbooked and still managed to make the group look solid. I feel that this was the first time LEGION looked like a group on a mission and looked like a faction that was strong. Also, I feel like this segment and the fallout (Riley's firing) invoked a lot of emotion from you guys. It seemed to be "THE" segment that was talked about, and the one that seemed to be what the focus of the show was around.
- Also, Ryuji Kamigawa is one of my new favorite characters. It was a great introduction to an intriguing character.
- I wrote Lenton/Romero. I feel like I didn't do them justice, but Jer seemed to like the match and was happy with it. I feel like Lenton has potential to become a strong character here, but he just needs to keep taking steps to avoid slipping into the dreaded territory where he's just the face he uses as a PB with a new name. There were some steps forward and some steps back on it.
- Gouken vs. Alex was a fun read, and I like the role Alex plays here in the company. SHOOT is a semi-partner of ours, so seeing Dan Stein at ringside was fun. Hope he comes back!
- I asked Norton (Abby's writer) to put together this segment a few days prior, when I knew about what was going on with Kevin and Torrie and the whole situation. To me, I feel like it's a good segment, because few segments are written based on what people KNOW is on the show. They seem to be written to transition things, so we see few segments that are based on in-show reactions unless the same people are doing things up and down the night. So this gave it a "real" feel.
- Kliff vs. Johnny was so good on so many levels. The match was not only well written, but there was a solid amount of tension, capped off by a great post-match segment between Cannon and Ulysses. The two of you guys were top notch here, and kudos to Gunner for writing an amazing match.
- Big thanks to Buckson Gooch from APW for writing Gunner vs. V. I wish we could have given more justice to a couple of guys who had a .2 point difference between one another, but you guys were awesome and deserve a great deal of praise.
- Park and Squid rightfully main evented and tore the house down. The two of them proved why they're at the top of the heap, and I have nothing for respect for them both. Of course, the big Andrew Ashton reveal had me mark out based on the history.
Now...other things.
- We took Mina's advice as to how we posted. It worked well in some places, others not so much. I do like the breakdown of each thing having its own post, though I feel like both ways have their own merits. With our webspace hopefully up and going soon, should we just put results in the HTML file and wait until we have it all put together?
- I will do my best to make sure multiple skins are available for everyone on our boards. I'm a novice at this, so bear with me.
- COMFORT. EAGLE. Only two of you will get that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 16:50:20 GMT -6
I really like how you guys covered the six-man tag situation.
I really really liked how Kliff vs. Johnny Cannon was capped off.
mine versus Gunner gave us both stuff to work with and an excuse to get a rematch on a really close match down the line. I couldn't ask for much more sensibly.
on a more fedder-specific note, weirdly, I like Lenton. that's weird because I hate the Rock, I have for a long time now, and I really have a hard time explaining the difference. especially without going off-topic.
on the Crash TV/trainwreck section...
you have darling little babyface fan-fave underdog Fiona in the ring, just won the strap off big monstrous Omar with about as much build as you can have in a new place like this doing something last minute. double champ. then LEGION's gonna Godzilla the ring and cripple people and end careers and just totally piss on her moment. that's your setup. it's a really emotionally-heightened thing and it's great. it makes us angry for her and it makes them a threat, and you guys solved a whole fuckload of problems with one seg there.
but I am also cripplingly oldschool, and there's only two or maybe three people coming to this board who aren't going to think I'm completely talking out of my ass. nonetheless--
wrestling psych is real simple when you get down to it, it's the art of making things make sense if they were shoot. if this were shoot, how would we know they were going to stop the ankle-snapping with Omar? Rufus Frost already has a huge lawsuit/insurance problem going down in his ring... why would he wait it out to see if they were going to cripple his double-champion too? why would any faces, or anyone generally opposing LEGION, sit on their thumbs and wait either?
...why accommodate them?
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Post by Dan Stein on Mar 2, 2013 0:50:44 GMT -6
Hey, everyone. Just wanted to say that I'm glad the involvement of Stein in the match with Brooks and Gouken wasn't hated, and that the way that the Omar's departure was handled made sense to me from an outsider's opinion. I thought Omar and Fiona were in a dead heat against each other at the Supercard so with Fiona getting the championship in Omar's absence, it wasn't a bad thing.
I have a lot of fun reading EXODUS shows. Glad to be involved in this one.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 16:31:47 GMT -6
yes basically. ewrestling community tends to groan a bit over so many heels and tweeners, and real babyfaces being so rare. as far as I can see there are two reasons for that. - popular culture is in love with villains right now. has been for a while, but seems to be peaking.
- real babyfaces have to be booked like glass eggs; when you get lemons intentionally or accidentally you can't squeeze lemonade out of babyfaces like you can tweeners, babyfaces crack.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 18:25:31 GMT -6
Alright.
As for the heels being "far too powerful"...other than this past show, I don't see it. I see this buildup of LEGION being a looming threat, then on this past show they struck as a whole unit. If they're going to be seen as a threat, wouldn't you think that they need to be presented as one? What kind of a threat is LEGION if they show up, talk about how dangerous they are, then a group of EXODUS people run down and beat them up? Without getting into the specifics of our booking for the future, heels have to be presented as a threat for anyone to get over by standing up to or beating them. If the scenario laid out above were to happen, then there's no reason for LEGION to be here, because they're already inferior to the faces, even when they have the advantage.
Why didn't the KoA run out there? In the simplest answer I can give you, it's because "They weren't booked, so they weren't there." Because eW is a "competition" it would make sense that everyone is there because they have a match. The Knights (and to a lesser extent because she's not in the conversation, Summer) weren't in attendance. I know you said to Jon (after the show went up) that "they live in the San Diego area, so they'd totally be there." How exactly am I supposed to know that when their bios don't indicate that, and a "blog post" written by LG in your RP for this show distinctly says he's in Toronto, where one would assume he is when he's not on the road for a show.
I think V's right about villains being popular, particularly in wrestling. Popular culture generally embraces villains that are presented as "cool" villains; Darth Vader is a pop culture "bad guy" that's presented as this mythical badass who carries a lightsaber and generally looks cool, even though his character arc is a combination of "tragic fallen hero" and "guy who kills for power." Heels in wrestling can avoid that, to a certain extent, while heels in e-wrestling can skew even further, to the point where they do nothing that could be perceived as cool. EXODUS has heels that fall on both sides of that divide; people like Omar Wise and Andrew Ashton were/are written in a way that they have some fan support, but because of their targets, they're heels, and a portion of the crowd boos them.
On the other side of the coin, "true faces" have a much thinner line to tread. I hold the belief that they can be squeezed, but very carefully. Nobody's going to accept Fiona Rourke or Steve Lenton as a face if they suddenly come out this show and take a chair to, we'll say Aiden Romero. But if Rourke did the same thing to Magnus Gunner or Kliff Ulysses, an audience would see that as justified...I would think. Faces that lean closer to tweener, like V or Kamigawa, can't really do that either, but they aren't seen as these hero-type figures. But I think writing a real babyface is possible. They just have to be written carefully, because if you make them too saccharine, nobody buys it, and if you write them too dark, they're just a heel pretending the fans love them.
As for your earlier comment on "wrestling psych," when it comes to pro wrestling, there's a certain suspension of disbelief that's required. As an old school guy who perhaps saw the Four Horsemen lock themselves in a cage with Dusty Rhodes and "break his ankle," or the nWo take over a ring by sheer force of numbers and weapons, these types of things happen. What it seems like you're trying to do is combine wrestling psychology with what would happen in a real situation...which would be police swarming the "gang" doing the attack and using whatever means needed to stop the assault, and EXODUS deals with a lawsuit from Omar & Torment. If you take away that suspension of disbelief, it turns into this, and wrestling becomes a courtroom drama instead.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 20:45:39 GMT -6
Writing a face character can be difficult, but only if YOU make it so. That line gets crossed if you take too cheesy of an approach to it. For years, one of the reasons I refuse to even watch WWE is because Cena makes me want to throw the remote through the tv. The key to writing a good face is to make that person believable. So Person X is a good guy, but why is he so? What's his/her belief system and/or moral code that has him/her doing Y. And then there's the question as to if what you have in mind is even physically possible. Remember, even Superman's dropped the ball a few times.
I personally am big on the anti-hero. The person, who given their life experiences, has every reason in the world to be the bad guy, but they don't. They're good despite themselves. This is what I see with Erin myself. With her life's history, which I'll get into, there's a lot of dark and sad shit in there. And there are times where she questions why she keeps going. To counter act that is the role model of the deceased mother, her catholic upbringing, honest cop (instead of going the easier crooked route). Overcoming outside forces is one thing, but a character dealing with their own faults and to have the good outweigh their bad in order to be in a position to confront those outside problems makes a far better face character than simply opposing those "bad" forces because they have the "good" label.
You have to ask yourself if you would do the same thing. Chasing off the "bad guys" simply because they're the opposing faction just doesn't sound solid enough to me. Would your character help or would it be more of a "not my problem, I got other shit to deal with" point of view?
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